Host Carol Castiel speaks with Elliott Abrams, Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations, about his new book “Realism and Democracy: American Foreign Policy After the Arab Spring.” Abrams tells VOA that “chaos” is the real enemy of political progress and that a breakdown of law and order is what allows extremist groups like ISIS or al Qaida to move into the vacuum. Abrams says the U.S. should do more to promote democracy not only because it is a better form of governance for the Arab world but also because it is in the long-term national interest of the United States.